Intrinsic/Extrinsic Self-Reference

Almost certainly blogged this before but its clear at the moment:

One type of self reference (extrinsic self-reference) involves a system being able to select itself from amongst others. This sentence has five words. The previous sentence has selected itself from the rest of the text and in particular distinguishes itself from the next sentence. This sentence has five words. It is as though the system looks out into the world, identifies itself and then looks back in again. In reality it is using us, the reader, to do the looking and the thinking and we lie outside the system - or at least we are not the sentence. However I am unimpressed with external self reference because what is the real difference between the second and third sentences of this paragraph, or even this sentence here. The second sentence refers to itself and the third also refers to it. Both sentences are selecting one of the sentences on this page, in that they are the same. So the fact that the second sentence "happens" to select the sentence that is also itself is quite unmiraculous and is just a trivial feature. There is no "self" here other than that which a reader may infer when (or if) they realise that the sentence is referring to the same sentence they are reading.

The other type of self-reference, and the one which I'm saying is logically impossible in the SRH, is intrinsic self-reference where the entity refers to itself within itself. Now this is non trivial and quite miraculous if it exists. It is the situation monists believe is true within humans where somehow we have a secret mirror in which we can see ourselves, and know our own thoughts and wishes. This they believe would be true even on a desert island or in a world where nothing else existed but them. I used to hold this view and it is through failure to actually find consciousness or a self and after being given a push by Buddha that I changed view.

The idea that somehow self-refernece and recursive feedback in the brain causes consciousness just doesn't go anywhere. Recursion does indeed creates a many leveled intersecting fractal structure (which is Hoffstadter's brilliant view) but that anything would be mysteriously "created" is untenable. What "I" am would be just be phantoms in the swirling mix of data (the hall of mirrors as it is called in this blog). What I am careful to avoid however is the suggestion that the "world" is any less a phantom. The belief in material entities like brains that somehow mysteriously underly the "self" or consciousness implies some special knowledge of "reality" which I am yet to see myself! After all if it was so easy to escape the hall of mirrors why hasn't everyone other than Hoffstadter and Dennett!

Intrinsic self-reference involves not having to identify oneself from other things by "external" features but involves having an almost tautologically connection to oneself - and inner bond to oneself. The "I think: I am" bound into ones existence. I'm not taking sides and saying that outside is better than inside (though the Western Materialists side totally with the outside while Buddha said that inside/outside is just part of the illusion) , just looking for an immanent problem with holding the inside view.