Gloriavale: the original sin

Just watching the 2022 documentary on the New Zealand Cult at Gloriavale.

One of the long term members describes the moment she went to the travelling tent to hear Neville Cooper preach and this is the line of argument that got her into the mindset:

Everyone is born with a sinful nature.
With a sinful nature people will sin.
Therefore people need salvation.

The listener who is telling us this, then said she thought "wow this is speaking to me" and then she was hooked and joined the community.

So where is the logical mistake?

(1) We are not disagreeing that everyone sins, but look carefully at the argument: Everyone is born with a sinful nature. The fact that people empirically sin is then inducted to argue that everyone has a "nature" that is sinful.

Look carefully at this argument. It takes the idea that I will sin, (which is true), and then says that this sin is not to do with "me" but to do with a substance that sins. The sin that I do is because of something that sins.  And this substance is not just present when I sin, but is always hidden and lurking there. It means that even what I am not sinning that substance is waiting to sin.

So what does this kind of argument do? It invalidates freedom and choice and relocates us into an "idea" that someone has given us. We are already castrated.

(2) She then says that "wow this is me." So like a fish being caught she then makes the second mistake which is to identify this substance which she just got told about with herself. Now she has no freedom or choice, because these things are not her true self. Her true self is this sinful substance which needs to be saved. In one step she is turned inside out and no longer has faith in herself and is completely controlled by the person who is telling her these things.

Now the reason I am am logging this is the beauty of the irony. What is the Devil? The Devil is a Deceiver. The Devil has literally no power you do not give him. There is no demon in the universe that can do anything unless you invite him in. This is why all the Movies are rubbish. A Devil cannot even raise a thought in your head unless you let him, let alone burn things and take souls to Hell. But Devils are extremely subtle and will play profound tricks with anything you leave hanging around. Be Mindful around devils!

So she has been tricked twice. (1) She has been tricked to believe that sin comes from a sinful substance. This is clear nonsense. If this was true then what was Genesis about and the knowledge of good and evil? What is Jesus' job forgiving those who repent? How can a sinful substance repent? It is clear nonsense. But then (2) she makes the most sinful mistake of all: to believe that she is a substance. This is actually the worst mistake of all. This demon has caused her to commit the biggest evil of all to sell herself for a fixed substance. She now has given up all choice, power of repentance and chance of forgiveness!

But it is interesting how our society primes children to believe they need to become a "substance" and a solid thing. Perhaps this is how regular society gets you to lock into a role and static place in society. But it is easily abused by any demon looking to trap people.

The truth is all this is nonsense. People are not things, we do not exist as substances or bodies, we do not live and we do not die. Everything "normal" society tells us in fact is wrong and the work of the devil so it is no small wonder that Neville Cooper can just pluck people already ripened by regular society for his own community rather than wider society.

So I could begin a comparison not of Gloriavale but of the parallels with our own society that poisons people to think that other parts of the world, and especially our enemies, are where Satan dwells and you are happier working every day of your life in Capitalist society. But I won't because it's too easy and distracts from the main point that we need be very mindful when demons are around and preying on our minds especially whenever they try to cement truth in the form of you 'are' something. Probably the most dangerous is when demons say "you 'are' free.", but all these species of sin come from the main one which is to believe we exist as a substance and a fixed thing at all.