Self-reference really is impossible.

I'm satisfied that it's completely impossible. Things can have no relationship to themselves. The reasons are less clear, but it is a logical necessity.

Firstly all things are made from things which they are not. A cake is made from flour, eggs, butter, sugar, mixing and heat energy; none of which if a cake. A table is made from a board and 4 legs, some nails and some work but none of which is called a table. Things that are not something come together to make something else by necessity. If they came together to make what they are then nothing could ever be made and the universe would be static with no time.

The universe is thus like a jig-saw puzzle. If a piece is missing we immediately notice that shape. But we see the "hole" made by the surrounding pieces. A hole cannot exist can it? but nevertheless it stands out according to the things which around it. In exactly the same way a single jigsaw piece on its own stands out. This is the same but in reverse. In this case the hole is the surrounding and the piece is what we see. In one case we see a hole created by surrounding pieces, in the other a piece created by a surrounding hole. In both cases hole and pieces exist!

Thus a thing cannot have a relationship with itself because it is also not itself!

Another argument is this. If a thing can refer to itself, then it is self-referential. If it is self-referential, and it refers to itself, then it refers to something which is self-referential.

Thus it is not good enough to refer to oneself to be self-referential, one must also refer to something which is self-referential to be self-referential. And that can only be self-referential by the same condition, so it can never be decided if something is self-referential.

"I have 4 words" is thus not self-referential!

This was useful in meditation because it stopped me thinking that i knew myself. This is impossible!!